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Thursday, November 19, 2009

Socialist Health Care

Have you noticed since the Socialist Health Care Plan they’re pushing on us, many hitherto desperately necessary tests and procedures have suddenly been heralded as elective. Yearly physicals, annual gynecological exams, prostate exams, colonoscopies, and now mammograms are all of a sudden not so vital. The genius so called medical experts claim now even self breast exams are not recommended. This is in addition to making hip and knee replacement surgery elective (as long as the painkillers are working don’t worry about it). Wow, and they discovered all these revelations in time for government run health care. It appears many of us won’t have to worry about the fake global warming theorists’ claims the planet will soon be frying in a ball of flame at the rate our benevolent leaders are destroying our health care system. As I’ve always said, socialized medicine is for the healthy. The rest don’t survive long enough to complain about it. Here’s a lady who can attest to it.


Charles Gramlich said...

I'm going to disagree with you a little bit here. I do see how now they are saying some things may not be needed as frequently as in the past, but in at least some cases (not all), doctors and hospitals were artificially inflating the needs for these things in the past just so they could make money. I know many, many people, including myself, who have been pushed in the past toward unnessecary and even potentially harmful medications and treatments. I've resisted but others I know haven't. The fact is, such things shouldn't be so clearly tied to money, either acquiring it as under a purely capitalist system, or trying to keep costs down as in a pure socialist system. As usual, the best route probably lies somewhere in the middle.

BernardL said...

Actually, the prices have been rising because of lawyers and no competition across state lines. The Doctors' medical insurance has gone up astronomically so they are forced to protect themselves with ever increasing tests to cover every base against the trial lawyers in all situations. With tort reform and portability across state lines for health insurers every item you mention would repair itself. And I will disagree with you on one other thing too. When services and products are not tied to money they do not improve and they eventually fail miserably. The market corrects all if the government is not allowed to regulate competition. The tests the sudden 'new findings' in my blog list do not fall under anything you mentioned, Charles. There is no middle road on socialist health care. There is only road kill. :)

John said...

I am confused. If you go on the UPSTF website and read the conculsions that are based in scientific literature, all they report is that based on scientific research the effectivess of of mamograms increases as a woman ages. Nowhere do I see any recomendations that doctors should stop performing mamograms for women in their forties. This is an agency that is reporting what they have found base on research as far as I can tell. What I find interesting is that if insurance companys can paint this in a way that makes the government look like they don't care about women, then they can make a case that the government's bid for national health insurance is a bad one. I am not all for government interferring in our lives but this comes down to who I trust less. Government or big insurance companies. In this case it has to be the insurance companies. Aslo, putting ones faith in "the Market" as a be all and end all is risky. The market does not correct all if you read history. We are in the midst of a financial turndown that was mostly caused by unregulated dirivitives in the banking sector and massive greed in the mortgage industry. Without some form of government intervention and protection we would all be out of work at this point. This is what Bush was trying to prevent when he left office and what the current adminstration has been saddled with as a result.

BernardL said...

John, without government interference the market works every time. There is not a single thing the government does well other than tax our money away. They can't even run a post office. Private enterprise either produces or it goes under. If it's propped up or taxed into no longer being able to compete, it fails.

I'm pointing out in the last few months the medical experts are coming out with a wide range of hitherto vital annual tests all of a sudden not being necessary. The Socialist health bill is the reason because the government's plan will adopt these measures to cut costs.

Bush isn't President anymore. I know it will remain fashionable to blame him for everything under the sun though. He did not cause the bank collapse which started this whole economic fiasco. Barney Frank and his band of thieves perpetrated that. Bush was never for Socialized health care which was fine by me. What he didn't do was seal the borders when he had the chance and enforce the immigration laws. Illegal immigrants account for an enormous drag on our health care system, schools, and prisons. If President Obama would just shut down illegal immigration he wouldn't need socialized medicine.

John said...

Correct me if I am wrong here, but we both recieved the GI Bill as a condition of serving in the military. And if you used your as I did mine it only helped us in the process of attaining our goals. You went to collage to get a degree in automotive technology which would later help you in procurring your business. (And doesn't the government also assist in business loans? And did you use this as an asset?)
I think this is one of those socialist "handouts" courtsey of the new deal that worked out kind of nicely. Don't you think?
Also. The government sponsored health care that our veterens recieve is the finest there is. That seems to be something they seem to be able to do correctly.

BernardL said...

We served our country, me for 4 years, and as you know we served on call 24/7 at first for around a dollar a day back in '68. I think I was up to a whopping couple hundred a month by 1972. I did earn an AA degree in Auto Tech and a BA in English on the GI Bill, and brother it was no handout.

The best businesses in the land did not get there with government loans for the simple reason the government dictates hiring practices when you take them. That automatically cripples the business that takes the 'helping hand'.

No, veteran's care is the worst in the land. Take a few minutes and google the disastrous care congress found out about. And yes, I agree our veteran's care is a dismal example of what universal socialist health care would be if passed.

Why don't we leave this with what we have in common, John. We both served our country and we both live in the same area. :)

John said...

Oh come on Bernie. So you give me something to think about. I do the same. That is what discussion is all about. I was curious about some of the things that you put out in a public forum. And I wanted a chance to comment. It's also interesting to me how one views things. I thought that the GI bill was a pretty good deal. Back when we lived in Newark, rent was around 85 dollars a month as I recall, 327 dollars per month went a long way. It not only paid my rent, it feed me and paid my tuition also. My father went to UC berkeley and graduated with a business degree on the GI bill, as did thousands of other veterens who returned from the war. This very act allowed the formally poor and unable service men to go to collage, get better jobs and return to a work force that gave our generation the best middle class in history. It sounds as if your experience was not the same?
Also. When I speak of GI assisted business loans I am talking about loans for small businesses, not big business. People or large businesses that take out loans are beholden to much more than just worrying about hiring practices. Things like making a profit. If a business can't cut the mustard as far as making a go of it in a competitive business world the last thing they will have to worry about is whether they adhere to fair and equal hiring practices.

BernardL said...

Oh come on, John. It's always interesting to me trading preconceived opinions. :) What's your point? I say the GI Bill isn't a handout. It was earned. When the kids overseas come back from defending what little we have of Western Civilization and take advantage of the GI Bill - it won't be a handout. It will have been earned big time. Government loans don't help businesses. They handicap them.

Government does nothing well but tax. Bringing you back to the actual point of my post - I listed a number of factual vital medical tests now suddenly being heralded as unnecessary, just in time for Socialist Health Care. Nice coincidence.

whydibuy said...

I, too, have to disagree with your
For people with money, our health system is great. But try getting help when your poor or without insurance. Sure, you make good money and can afford the gold standard insurance. Unfortunately, many middle income families can't afford the 1000.00 per month premium for a family of 4.
Then something happens and they get charged 4-5 times what the insurance co pays for the same procedure because they have to pay out of pocket. Explain that little pricing game.

You forget that without medicare, the vast majority of seniors would be without any healthcare. You say its fine, thats the free market. Yeah, the free market is cold and will let someone die. Your right about that.
And as for the conspiracy theories about testing, most of those studies are peer reviewed to counter any " men in black" fudging the data. They present something foolish and they get called out by medical associations.

BernardL said...

Sorry you feel that way, whydibuy. My wife and I with two kids were a middle class family of four for decades. Instead of new cars, boats, and living beyond our means we paid the health insurance bill every month. If others choose not to, it's a free country, but it shouldn't be up to the rest of us to pay their way because they think health care is a right. As I stated before, portability across state lines to promote more competition and tort reform to harness the lawyers would bring the costs down dramatically.

Medicare is a great example of another socialist health care blunder the rest of us are footing the bill for. It amounts to poor care and it's bankrupt.

It's too bad you believe the famous 'peer review' ploy is okay for ginning up stats to cover up a socialist con game. East Anglia scientists did the same thing for Global Warming. I don't buy into thinking if you believe in something it's okay to make up facts to foist your beliefs on me. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, whydibuy.

whydibuy said...

Bernard, I think you have gone away from reason in your distrust of peer review.
When it comes down to it, peer review of every medication and medical procedure is all you have. Without peer review you get snakeoil salesmen making unfounded and unproven claims.
If you don't believe in the value of peer review, why would you ever seek out medical treatment since by your logic, its all a diabolical scam?? After all, its peer review that validates whether a drug is effective or that a implanted medical device actually helps the beating of a heart.

New incoming data is not conspiratorial. Knowledge changes.
For example. My mother had a bout with breast cancer. For years she had taken HRT ( hormone replacement therapy ). Now, new peer reviewed data and research indicates that the estrogen she recieved was actually a food for her type of cancer. She now takes a medicine to counter any estrogen in her body.
Is that a conspiracy against her??
No, its just a better understanding of the human body.

Peer review, its all we got to affirm or reject that new incoming data. I'm sorry you feel its a scam but I'll take peer review over conspiracy theories anyday.

BernardL said...

I won't trade anecdotal stories with you, whydibuy. I answered your questions as best I could. I believe when the government and scientists mention 'peer reviewed studies' I reach for my wallet. East Anglia Scientists used the 'peer review ploy' to foist the global warming hoax on us.

For decades 'peer reviewed studies' claimed the tests I mentioned in my post were vital. Government sponsored Socialist health care comes along and suddenly those vital tests aren't so vital. If I also believe the government is using the 'East Anglia Method' with health care, that's my right. You're welcome to believe anything you like. No hard feelings.

Miladysa said...

We have the National Health Service in the UK and it is the best thing - ever!

There are those who malign the NHS and would like to see the introduction of private health care for all and push forward a two tier - perhaps a multi tiered health care system.

IMO health should never be about profit or ability to pay. Everyone, regardless of income, should be entitled to equal health care.

BernardL said...

That’s okay, Miladysa. We just disagree. IMO health care is not an entitlement any more than owning a car or a house is. Health care workers are not slaves who should be forced to provide extensive labor to people and governments as a political tool to soothe the minds of people more willing to buy big screen TV’s and new cars rather than pay their health insurance bill. If a person wants good health care, that person should work and pay for good solid coverage. If they want to gamble on not becoming ill, then their gamble should not be paid for with my tax money. In the US, no person (unfortunately this includes illegal aliens) can be turned away at our hospital emergency rooms for medical treatment. Emergency health care is available here for everyone already. I was asked once an anecdotal question on a forum what I thought would happen if an illegal alien child from Mexico was hit by a car in East LA. I answered the child would be treated under our federal law and that if the child was at home in Mexico that child would not have been hit by a car in East LA. Our porous borders have done more to damage our citizens’ perception of the country’s health care system than anything else. I say perception, because even with its flaws, the United States still has provably the best health care system in the world.

The fact I don’t want the United States to become a socialist cesspool of mediocrity matters not. Our elected officials are hell bent on stripping anything resembling our country’s golden history of individual fortitude, courage, and self-reliance to forge a new nanny state of irresponsible sheep. Our congressional leaders do it so as to buy votes with each newly acquired gift they give away as if they pay for it themselves. The fact they are bankrupting our country both monetarily and morally gives them not a second’s pause.

I am glad you’re happy with the health care system in the UK, Miladysa, but I don’t want it here. My wife just had her second knee replacement and is walking straight for the first time in decades. Knee and hip replacement operations are considered elective under socialized medicine, including the UK. Believe me when I tell you this – my wife’s knee replacement surgeries were not elective. She was able to pick her surgeon, the place where she could have the surgery done, and what manner of follow up care she wanted. It’s an anecdotal example but I’ve already posted numerous examples of vast advantages our present health care system has over socialized medicine.